Education Leaders | The Chart-Topping School Leadership Podcast

Leadership interviews terrify plenty of capable teachers, and Shane admits he is one of them. So Orla Dempsey, a coach who helps teachers secure leadership positions, coaches him live in this episode. She starts with a reframe Shane calls huge: when a question asks “what would you do if...”, answer in the past tense and tell a story about something you have already done. If you are preparing for a school leadership interview, or helping a colleague prepare, you can use her tools straight away. In this archived episode, you’ll learn how Orla teaches the STAR technique (situation, task, action, result), including her “clam” image and her rule that the result should take 17 words or less. Shane has a go at a live mock answer about coaching a colleague whose long emails annoyed his team, and Orla shows how a list of verbs makes it sharper. You’ll also hear how to put figures behind your impact, how to read a school’s needs from a principal’s address and photographs, and why speaking from the heart beats speaking…

A teacher hands in their planning late for the third time, and you know they are dealing with a difficult situation at home. Insist on the deadline and you may ask for something they cannot manage, but keep extending it and colleagues end up carrying the load while pupils’ preparation suffers. This solo episode of school leadership coaching looks at what to do when two of your values pull in opposite directions, using Rushworth Kidder’s idea of “right versus right” dilemmas. It matters for any leader who has felt torn between standards and compassion and defaulted to whichever response felt most familiar. Shane walks through five practical moves: name both concerns and what each one protects, gather the facts, look for another route, choose and acknowledge the cost, then rehearse the conversation. You’ll hear what “standards” and “compassion” might mean in the late planning example, and why a temporary arrangement with a clear review date can create room for both. Shane also shares how he slipped on his own…

Dr Andrew Miller, Academic Principal at Beijing International Bilingual Academy, explains what going slow really looks like for a school leader and why "maybe don't" could be the most useful phrase you say all year. His career spans Washington State's Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction, Singapore American School and Shanghai American School, so he has seen how pressure to move fast plays out in very different systems. There is also a story behind this episode: Shane's audio failed to record, so you hear Andrew's answers as they were given on the day, with short bridge lines from Shane to set up each question. You'll learn how to tell deliberate slowness apart from avoidance or a loss of nerve, and how Andrew resets his own sense of urgency on the days when he feels he hasn't done enough. He also covers how to let staff see your thinking without it sounding like excuses, and where the line sits between useful vulnerability and venting. Shane closes with three practical steps to try this week,…

Every month, Shane Leaning and Chris Scora sit down to unpack what has come up on the Education Leaders podcast, and this live catch-up covers two of the season's most talked-about conversations. The main event is a robust back-and-forth on Claire Badger's episode, "Do Schools Really Kill Creativity?", where Chris admits he needed three listens to get past his initial discomfort with Claire's certainty before finding real common ground. They also revisit Jim Knight's "Stop Telling Teachers What to Do" and discuss why his coaching-over-directing approach has struggled to gain traction in UK schools despite making obvious sense on paper. You'll hear why Chris pushed back on Claire's definition of creativity as needing to be both "novel and useful," and why he worries that scaffolding can tip into constraint when applied under classroom time pressure. Shane and Chris also work through the tension between aspiration and pragmatism in education, using the IB's diploma programme as a case study, and close with…

Claire Badger, a former research scientist and science teacher, disagrees with one of the most popular ideas in education: that schools kill creativity. Drawing on the cognitive science in her book, she argues that creativity has a clear definition (something must be both new and useful) and that most school approaches to it miss the second half. If your school celebrates its art displays, orchestra and project weeks as proof of creativity, this conversation will make you question what those activities are actually building. It matters for international school leaders in particular, where inquiry-based and project-based learning sit at the heart of the curriculum. You'll hear why a child's paperclip-spaceship idea is imaginative but not creative, and why a group of students told to write about "Colin, a red-haired boy missing a toe" produced better stories than those given a blank page. Claire shares her own "sustainable product" project day, which ended with a perpetual motion machine, and explains why…

Shane Leaning has spent years building the Education Leaders podcast into a trusted source for practical leadership strategies. In this special launch episode, he's joined live by the hosts of four other education podcasts to unveil something new: the Education Leaders Podcast Network. What started as a conversation between Adam Kohlbeck and Chris Passey about wanting all their favourite education podcasts in one place has become a five-show network, each independently produced but bound by shared quality standards and a common goal of broadening the conversation across the sector. You'll hear directly from the hosts of EduPulse, Beyond the Status Quo, Teaching on Purpose, Coaching Done Well and Coaching Unpacked, and Education Leaders Live, each explaining what makes their show distinct. Shane and his co-hosts discuss everything from the "kintsugi" philosophy behind Beyond the Status Quo to the new podcast studio behind Teaching on Purpose, and Adam Kohlbeck shares the same-day publication of his book on…

Shane opens this episode by naming a habit most school leaders share: telling their team "my door is always open," then wondering why staff still hesitate to bring problems to them. He argues these phrases feel generous but give people nothing concrete to act on, leaving new starters and existing team members to guess how you actually want to be approached. Drawing on a 2013 field study of over 600 call centre employees, Shane shows how a single day of onboarding, focused on staff rather than company values, cut turnover by nearly a third within six months. You'll learn three specific things to tell your team in your very first meeting this year: how to reach you and how quickly you'll genuinely reply, the specific situations you want flagged before they escalate, and how you behave under pressure so people stop having to work it out by trial and error. Shane also shares his own example of going quiet under stress and warns against the two ways this approach usually falls apart. If you want a practical,…

This episode explores what happens when school leaders stop starting a building project with a room count and start with a harder question about who their students are becoming. Phil, a Director at EIW Architects and past International Chair of the Association for Learning Environments, has spent more than thirty years watching how classrooms, corridors and timetables quietly shape behaviour, belonging and identity. If you are planning a new build, an expansion, or simply rethinking how your existing spaces reflect your school's values, this conversation offers a genuinely different starting point. You'll learn why treating a design brief as a fixed checklist can trap a school in yesterday's thinking, and how Nanjing International School flipped that process by writing a "Dear Architect" document about beliefs rather than room specifications. Phil shares the story of a project in rural Tanzania that turned his team from experts into learners, and explains why risk avoidance has quietly become a measure of…

This week, we're revisiting a favourite from the archives. Shane sits down with Katharine Birbalsingh, founder and headmistress of Michaela Community School, the free school in a converted Wembley office block that has posted the highest Progress 8 scores in England for three consecutive years. Katharine explains why she's never once used an agenda in a meeting, why simplicity beats choice in almost every part of school life, and why she believes real autonomy only works when staff genuinely own what they're building together. You'll hear the ice cream cone analogy Katharine uses to explain why schools quietly become too complicated over time, why she deliberately warns candidates about the parts of Michaela they might not like before hiring them, and how she applies the logic of the dating world to setting standards with parents and pupils alike. Whether or not you agree with her approach, this conversation will push you to think harder about what genuine conviction in leadership actually looks like.…

When a teacher in South Carolina hit 86% on a goal she had set for herself, her school moved off the state's lowest-performing list and the state department called to ask how she had done it. In this episode, Jim Knight, founder of the Instructional Coaching Group and the person who coined the term "instructional coaching", explains why that result had almost nothing to do with the teaching strategy involved. Jim has spent thirty years researching professional learning at the University of Kansas Center for Research on Learning, and he brings that research to a frank conversation about why so much well-meaning coaching quietly deprofessionalises the very teachers it is meant to support. You'll learn why Jim treats every coaching relationship as a partnership rather than an instruction, and why even experienced, well-intentioned leaders can slide into telling without noticing they are doing it. Jim walks Shane through the four conversations that move a teacher from watching video of their own classroom to…

Ever sat in a meeting watching one person take over while everyone else goes quiet, and had no idea how to step in? Shane tackles exactly that in this solo episode. He unpacks why dominant speakers do more than annoy the room: research on "hidden profile" problems shows that when one person carries the conversation, groups are far more likely to land on the wrong decision, because the quietest person in the room is often the one holding the missing piece. Shane explains why most leaders freeze in this moment and what actually stops them from stepping in. You'll learn a four-step technique called the redirect: naming the person, acknowledging something specific they said, bridging with "and" rather than "but," and inviting a named colleague into the conversation. Shane breaks down why each step matters, including the psychology behind starting with someone's name and why generic acknowledgement backfires. He also covers the timing judgement call of when to step in, and how to handle it differently when…

Ask a teacher how many people looked at their exercise books last year and you might be surprised by the number. Tyrone Ruth counted his: fifteen different people, in a single academic year. In this episode, Tyrone, a teacher-turned-senior-leader with experience across the UK and the Middle East, unpacks what he calls the hidden curriculum of surveillance: the quiet network of book looks, learning walks, data drops and digital check-ins that most schools treat as completely normal. He argues this constant, low-level monitoring is doing real damage to teachers, even when no single leader intends any harm. You'll hear why Tyrone thinks there's a critical difference between professional accountability and a surveillance culture rooted in mistrust, and how that distinction changes the way a school should ask questions of its staff. Tyrone shares the story of an eleven-page marking policy, explains why teachers end up producing evidence rather than teaching, and uses Bentham's Panopticon to describe how simply…

This is a bonus episode. Every last Thursday of the month, Shane sits down with Chris Scorer to pick apart the themes from the month's podcast guests, the stuff that stuck with them, the bits they disagreed on, and where it all leads. If you listen to the main feed, this is your chance to hear those conversations chewed over properly. It's a quieter one this month, summer holidays for a good chunk of the northern hemisphere, and Chris is back after an eventful July of his own. But two short episodes turned into a properly meaty conversation, and one thread runs right through it: we do things instinctively in the classroom that we somehow forget to do when we're leading adults. They start with defensive teachers. Chris flips Shane's original question on its head, not "have you had a defensive teacher?" but "have you been one, and why does the system make us feel that way?" That leads somewhere useful. Defensiveness isn't a character flaw, it's natural, and often it's a symptom of a place that's short on…

Seventeen weeks into writing a weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, Shane has landed on a simple but powerful idea: leadership levers. This episode explains what makes a lever different from a project or a habit, why it has to be small enough to do tomorrow morning without telling anyone, and why it has to live inside something already in your week, like a meeting or a handover. Drawing on John Sweller's research on cognitive load and Stephen Rogelberg's studies on meetings, Shane makes the case that most leadership problems aren't solved by trying harder, but by placing effort somewhere better. You'll learn why a single sentence sent before a meeting can prevent hours of follow-up confusion, and why two minutes at the end of a meeting assigning names to actions can stop decisions turning into vague memories. Shane also shares how learning a framework for difficult conversations freed up enough mental space to actually listen better, rather than working out the opening line from scratch every time. If you're…

This week, we're revisiting a favourite from the archives, recorded back when this podcast was still called Global Ed Leaders. Shane sits down with Tom Sherrington, the former headteacher turned writer, speaker and co-author of the Teaching WalkThrus series, to trace how he built one of the biggest audiences in education from a single WordPress blog in 2012. Tom explains why he never planned any of it, how a joke Twitter handle became his brand for years, and why he still presses publish every time expecting nobody to read it. You'll hear why Tom believes the best blog posts are the honest ones, including the post about his own OFSTED experience that cost him one speaking invitation and won him another. Tom shares his view on why anonymous social media accounts don't deserve a reply, why he refuses to criticise a school from the outside, and what he'd tell a school leader starting out today. If you've ever wondered whether putting your voice out there is worth the risk, this conversation will change how you…

Zaretta Hammond wants school leaders to stop treating change as a straight line. In this conversation, the author of Culturally Responsive Teaching and the Brain explains why growth actually moves in a spiral, why there's always a dip before things get better, and why so many educators are caught off guard by that dip because the system rarely rewards the messiness of learning. She unpacks the idea of "liminal spaces," the uncomfortable in-between moments where old skills are falling away and new ones haven't settled yet, and argues that school leaders need real skill in guiding people through them, not just managing productivity. You'll learn why Zaretta believes "we cannot PD our way out of this learning crisis," what she calls the "theory of the first pancake," and why she thinks evaluation should ask teachers what they've experimented with rather than whether they delivered a polished lesson. Zaretta also breaks down the difference between rapport and alliance in the teacher-student relationship, and why…

Most schools pour resources into developing brilliant teachers and then promote those same people into management roles with almost no preparation for what comes next. This episode centres on a genuinely exciting initiative: Management Mastery, an in-house leadership development programme created by Poppy Nobes, Head of Professional Development at Aldridge Education. Poppy built the programme after recognising a gap that formal qualifications like NPQs simply can't fill; the operational, contextual, and deeply practical side of managing people in your specific organisation. From handling difficult conversations to structuring communication channels, Management Mastery is designed to make the implicit explicit. You'll hear how Poppy and her team started by working backwards from the problems they were actually seeing in their workforce, grievances, repeated sick leave, unsupported staff, and designed a programme around the skills leaders needed to prevent them. Shane and Poppy discuss why practice-based…

technique called three-point communication that changes the physical dynamic of feedback conversations before a single word is spoken. Drawing on the instructional coaching research of Jim Knight, Parker Palmer's writing on how the soul approaches truth sideways, and well-established findings on side-by-side versus face-to-face conversation, Shane makes the case that a lot of the time, it isn't the words that trigger defensiveness; it's where people are sitting. You'll learn exactly what counts as a "third point" and how to use one, whether you're working from a teaching resource, a marked book, a printed data sheet, or nothing more than a scrap of paper. Shane also shares the story behind this habit, learning from leader Stacy Wallace, who always had a piece of paper on the table, and points to Adam Kohlbeck and Sarah Cottinghatt's Coaching Cuts series as a real-world example of the technique done well. If feedback conversations regularly turn into something you're managing rather than something that's…

This is a bonus episoded. Join us every month for Education Leaders Live, where we explore key insights from our recent podcast episodes, including the importance of adaptability in leadership, the role of research in education, and how to foster a community of learning. Key takeaways: * Discover what leaders can learn from cuttlefish and the challenges of adapting to different environments. * Understand the significance of research in education and how to apply it effectively in your classroom. * Learn about the journey of Patrice Bain and her impact on educational practices. Join Shane's Intensive Leadership Programme at educationleaders.co/intensive Shane Leaning, an organisational coach based in Shanghai, supports school leaders globally. He is the author of the best-selling 'Change Starts Here.' Shane is a leading educational voice in the UK, Asia and around the world. You can find Shane on LinkedIn. We are a proud member of the Education Leaders podcast network. For more great education shows, visit…

Patrice Bain's classroom was the first in the United States where cognitive scientists studied how children actually learn, not in a university laboratory, but with real students in a real school. That extraordinary starting point left her feeling completely alone professionally, with no colleagues to talk to and no community to turn to. This episode is for every teacher or leader who has ever felt that there are two education worlds: the one inside their school, and the wider world of research and ideas that seems just out of reach. You'll learn why reaching out to researchers, authors, and bloggers is far less daunting than it feels, and why the science of learning community is one of the most genuinely welcoming in education. Patrice shares a powerful question every school leader can ask that can transform professional culture overnight. If you lead a school and want your teachers to stop feeling like islands, this conversation will give you the practical nudge you need to press play. Resources & Links…

You float a reasonable idea in a meeting and within seconds, you're defending a plan you never made. This episode is about the straw man argument: what it is, where it shows up in schools, and why it quietly kills good decisions. Shane breaks down the four distinct forms it takes, from the classic distortion of what you actually said, to the hollow man (an opponent who doesn't even exist), the weak man (attacking the flimsiest version of a concern as though it speaks for everyone), and the iron man (puffing up your own idea so nobody dares question it). These aren't abstract philosophy; they show up in staff meetings, governor conversations, parent emails, and appraisal discussions wherever there's a bit of heat and a disagreement to avoid. You'll learn to spot a straw man while it's still happening using five practical tells, including the physical jolt of "that's not what I said," the telltale phrases like "so you're saying" or "so you don't care about," and the moment extreme words like "scrap," "never,"…

When someone tells you "research says you should be doing this," what should you actually do with that? Andrew Watson, educator, author, and founder of Translate the Brain, has spent fifteen years studying how cognitive psychology research does and doesn't apply inside real classrooms, and his answer might surprise you. In this conversation, Shane and Andrew tackle one of the most persistent tensions in school leadership: how to take research seriously without letting it override your professional judgement, your school's context, or your teachers' expertise. Andrew draws on everything from retrieval practice to the thoroughly debunked learning styles debate to show why "research-based" is a starting point for a conversation, not the end of one. You'll learn the single question to ask whenever someone cites a study (and why it's more useful than pushback), why phrases like "all the research shows" are actually a red flag rather than a reassurance, and how to help a teacher who brings you exciting new…

This episode tackles one of the quietest drains in school leadership: performing a version of yourself that isn't real. Shane introduces the cuttlefish dilemma, the pattern where leaders adapt their identity to fit a borrowed picture of what leadership is supposed to look like, and explains exactly why that performance compounds cognitive overload and leaves you running on empty by midweek. It matters now because leadership development programmes often reinforce this by handing leaders a mould to fit rather than helping them lead from what they already bring. You'll learn why starting with your values before any strategy or change project is the move that changes everything, and how your classroom experience holds more leadership instinct than you've probably been shown how to use. Shane shares what he saw across twenty leaders in his last coaching intensive, where the shift from performing to genuinely leading as themselves produced the most significant breakthroughs of the ten weeks. If you've ever felt…

This is a bonus episode. Every last Thursday of the month, Shane sits down with Chris Scorer to pick apart the themes from the month's podcast guests, the stuff that stuck with them, the bits they disagreed on, and where it all leads. If you listen to the main feed, this is your chance to hear those conversations chewed over properly. This month was a big one. Chris and Shane get into four very different episodes and find a thread running through all of them: the gap between what we know we should do in schools and the time and space we're actually given to do it. They start with the new heads, Chris Passey and Sam Crome, and why so few serving leaders feel able to talk openly about the job. Shane makes the case that there's a real, legitimate barrier there, you can't always speak freely when you feel beholden to a school's brand. Chris reflects on the moment he became a deputy head and people simply stopped being honest with him. Then there's Sam's line that keeps coming up: assumptions are the death of…

Three-quarters of children are worried about the state of the planet and Clare Garey argues that makes sustainability not just an environmental issue, but a wellbeing one. In this conversation, Clare, founder of Sustainability at School, challenges the idea that hanging up an eco poster or marking Earth Day is enough. Drawing on her work with international schools across Spain, India, Singapore and beyond, she makes the case that young people who learn about climate change but have no opportunity to take real action become disempowered and that school leaders have the ability to change that. You'll learn why trying to tackle every sustainability issue at once leads to overwhelm and why choosing one focused theme in year one is the most powerful thing a school can do. Clare walks through the four pillars that stop sustainability becoming just another initiative; a clear "why", a representative team, a simple action plan, and treating it with the same strategic weight as any curriculum change. You'll also hear…

If you've noticed that students seem different since the pandemic and you're not sure what to do about it, this episode gives you real answers. Nancy Weinstein, Chief Innovation Officer at Otus and co-founder of MindPrint, shares findings from a longitudinal study of 35,000 students aged 8 to 21, tracking cognitive skills from 2015 through and beyond the pandemic. The data reveals something most school leaders haven't yet seen: the biggest change in students isn't attention, which is what teachers almost universally report, it's verbal memory, with the average student now retaining roughly half of what they would have five years ago. You'll learn why flexible thinking has dropped significantly and what that means for how students respond to feedback in the classroom, why AI may be compounding these challenges, and where to find evidence-based strategies that already exist and work. Nancy also shares a surprising finding: teachers showed similar cognitive shifts to their students, particularly in flexible…

Saying yes is one of the most common habits among school leaders, and most of the time it happens automatically, without conscious thought. In this solo episode, Shane reflects on a conversation with a fellow educator that revealed they shared the exact same challenge: both had said yes far too much, and both were feeling the weight of it. Drawing on Adam Grant's Give and Take and the recent work of Cornell researcher Sunita Sah, Shane looks at why school leaders are wired to say yes, four specific psychological reasons that drive that habit, and the real costs it creates for your team, your relationships, and your own visibility as a leader. You'll learn how to replace the automatic yes with what Shane calls the trade-off response, a four-step approach that gives your boss more information rather than a flat refusal. Shane walks through the steps, acknowledge the priority, make your current load visible, name the trade-off, and hand the decision back, with real examples from his own career, including one…

What does it really take to step into public thought leadership as a headteacher and what do consultants and trust leaders get wrong when they walk into schools? In this episode, Shane is joined by Chris Passey, Headteacher at Kimichi School and co-host of the Coaching Unpacked podcast series, and Sam Crome, Interim Headteacher and Director of Education for Xavier Catholic Education Trust, for an honest conversation about professional voice, courage, and the assumptions that undermine good support. Both guests have built a presence beyond their schools through writing, podcasting, and public commentary, and they share what it actually took to get there. You'll hear Chris reflect on the moment he deleted a tweet and "ran away and hid under a rock" and what he'd do differently now. Sam makes a compelling case that assumptions are the death of good advice, drawing on his coaching training to explain why curious questions outperform confident recommendations every time. If you're a school leader wondering…

April was a packed month on the Education Leaders podcast. Five episodes, four guests, and a thread that quietly ran through all of them: the value of small, listened-to, incremental change. Chris Scorer joined me for our monthly live show to make sense of it all. Here's what landed. Listening before leading. Richard Wheadon's episode on his leadership journey hit hardest here. Richard's been honest about arriving at a new school full of confidence in approaches that had worked before, only to find the school wasn't ready to hear them. Chris reflected on his own version of that story from his deputy head days. The lesson Richard pulls out, that the relationship has to flip and you're the one who needs to understand them first, is something most leaders quote at interview but find genuinely hard once the pressure to deliver kicks in. Cognitive load isn't only a classroom concept. Meg Lee's episode on the science of leading drew the parallel cleanly. We'd never overload our students the way we routinely…

Most school leaders have felt it at some point: that quiet, nagging suspicion that everyone else is more capable, better prepared, and more deserving of the role. Julia Bialeski knows it well. In the spring of 2019, she walked into her first principal job with a smile on her face and panic in her chest, presenting excitement to the world while privately wondering when everyone around her would figure out she wasn't good enough. In this conversation, Julia, educator, district leader, career coach, and author of Leading with Grace, talks honestly about why imposter syndrome hits school leaders so hard, why the loneliness of the job makes it worse, and why the profession's retention crisis has everything to do with the leadership models we put in front of the people coming up behind us. Julia shares two practical strategies that have worked for her over years in leadership: a daily learning log that helps you end the day focused on what you gained rather than what you still don't know, and the "smile file", a…

That sickly feeling after a tough leadership call isn't your intuition warning you that you got it wrong and this episode explains exactly why. Drawing on Leon Festinger's 1957 work on cognitive dissonance, a 2021 meta-analysis from Hebrew University, and Kahneman and Tversky's research on loss aversion, Shane reframes one of the most common experiences in school leadership: the quiet panic that shows up on the sofa after a hard decision. If you've ever drafted a softening email at 11pm or lain awake running alternate endings, this one is for you. You'll learn why that post-decision discomfort is a receipt, not a warning, proof that your brain is doing the work of committing, not evidence that you chose wrong. Shane also explains why the loudest complaints after a change are predictably loud (loss aversion means losses feel twice as heavy as gains), and why suppressing the discomfort actually makes you a worse leader in the room. The practical takeaway is a single written exercise you can do this week that…

Melati Wijsen started Bye Bye Plastic Bags at age 12, spoke at the UN as a teenager, and never went to university, yet she is now teaching at three universities and shaping how a generation thinks about leadership and change. This episode is a conversation about what happens when a school genuinely creates space for a student's passion, and what school leaders can learn from one of the most compelling young voices in global education. Melati's journey through the Green School Bali, international advocacy, and her new book Change Starts Now offers a rare window into what education looks like when curiosity is treated as a core subject. You'll hear why Melati believes clarity beats inspiration when building a movement ("Bye bye plastic bags" mobilised an island; "let's change the world" mobilises confusion), and why she burnt out at 16 after saying yes to too many causes. She and Shane discuss the real tension between academic accountability and changemaking and why she argues it doesn't have to be binary. Her…

There's a particular kind of leadership trap that nobody warns you about: the one where everything is going so well that you stop noticing why. Richard Wheadon spent the first decade of his career in a high-performing London school where great culture, strong professional development, and collaborative leadership were simply the norm. It wasn't until he moved to a new school in the Northwest that he realised none of it had been accidental, and that his confidence had quietly tipped into assumption. This episode, built around Richard's honest account of that transition and the humbling moments that followed, including a candid conversation with Ross McGill that stopped him in his tracks, is essential listening for any leader who has ever walked into a new context expecting their old success to travel with them. You'll hear why Richard believes the single most important thing a leader can do when they arrive somewhere new is listen before they lead, and why skipping that step cost him time he couldn't get…

What if the principles that help students learn could also transform how you lead? This episode explores the powerful concept of the "science of leading" with Meg Lee, co-founder of Learning Science Partners and an internationally recognised advocate for evidence-informed teaching and professional learning. Meg explains why our leadership moves often fail when we act on "brittle knowledge," just enough understanding to be dangerous, instead of fostering the deep, flexible understanding needed to navigate complex organisations. This is a critical conversation for any leader feeling the tension between urgent action and sustainable implementation. You'll learn how core principles from cognitive science, such as cognitive load, prior knowledge, and effortful thinking, directly apply to leading schools and systems. Meg, a 30-year public education leader, author of Mindsets for Parents, and US ambassador for researchED, shares practical strategies, including how to simplify your school's focus, make small…

Shane and Chris are back for this month's Education Leaders Live, recording from Shanghai and Newcastle respectively, to unpack some of the biggest themes from recent episodes. The conversation kicks off with the backstory behind Education Leaders itself. How it started as a hobby podcast called Travel Ed, what redundancy taught Shane about building a business, and why the "build it and they shall come" approach is terrible advice for anyone thinking about going independent. From there, they get into Dr Chris Baker's brilliant work on poor proxies for leadership. What does it actually look like to lead well? Is visibility the same as effectiveness? And why did a child once assume Chris Baker was the new headmaster based entirely on his trench coat? They also dig into the CPD problem. Shane shares results from a LinkedIn survey where only 1 out of roughly 100 school leaders said external workshops had genuine impact. That leads to a proper debate about where responsibility sits when training doesn't stick,…

England spends £1 billion a year on teacher professional development, yet a poll of school leaders found that just 1% said it led to lasting change in practice. This episode examines why that gap exists, drawing on a landmark 2025 report from the Teacher Development Trust, which surveyed over a thousand teachers and leaders across England. The findings are stark, but the patterns, as Shane argues, are universal and if you lead a school anywhere in the world, the problems will feel familiar. You'll learn about the significant perception gap between what leaders think CPD achieves and what teachers actually experience, why the formats schools rely on most (workshops, online modules) are the least effective, and what the evidence actually points to instead. Shane shares five practical steps leaders can take right now, from closing the feedback gap with staff to investing in coaching and peer observation. Perhaps most urgently, the data shows a direct link between poor professional development and teacher…

How do we truly know if someone is a good leader? If your school relies on visible presence, constant busyness, or even a certain "look," you might be measuring the wrong things. In this thought-provoking episode, Shane is joined by experienced educator and leadership development specialist, Chris Baker, to explore the concept of 'poor proxies' for leadership. Inspired by Rob Coe's work on poor proxies for learning, Chris explains how schools often mistake correlated behaviours for the causal impact of effective leadership, potentially undermining leader well-being and organisational success. You’ll learn to identify common poor proxies like visibility, busyness, and confidence, and discover a more impactful framework for evaluation centred on two questions: "How does this leader make people feel?" and "What does this leader enable people to do?" Chris provides a practical, immediate action plan, advising you to audit your school’s leadership frameworks, recruitment processes, and development programmes for…

Episode 151 is a milestone worth pausing on, and Shane uses it to do something he probably should have done sooner: properly introduce himself. Many listeners know the podcast but have never heard the full story of how Education Leaders grew from a simple desire for better conversations into a three-part organisation spanning a community, a coaching academy, and international school consultancy. This episode is Shane's honest account of those early uncertain months, the moment something shifted, and why he kept going long before he had any of it figured out. You'll hear how the Education Leaders Intensive came together, what drives the self-study courses launching soon, and why Shane co-founded The Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit built on one clear conviction: schools need to restore confidence in their own judgement. Shane explains what he keeps seeing in schools around the world, the cycle of well-intentioned consultants and initiatives that never quite stick because internal capacity was never built…

Teachers spend years learning to coach people. Ask questions, not give answers. Build trust before expecting vulnerability. Hold space. Stay quiet when staying quiet is the hardest thing. Then they get promoted. And most of it disappears. Chris Scorer — school leader, data specialist, and co-host of Education Leaders Live — said it plainly this month: "You'd never walk into a classroom and tell kids to do something just because you're telling them to. Yet leadership very often does exactly that." If you've ever watched that gap open up — between what you know good leadership looks like and what actually happens under pressure — you're in the right place. You're not the only one who's seen it. This is Education Leaders Live, the monthly companion show to the Education Leaders podcast. Each month, host Shane Leaning and Chris Scorer sit down with the listeners who show up live to unpack the best conversations from the feed. This month they hit a milestone — Episode 150 — and three conversations that kept…

What does it mean to lead a ‘British’ school in an international context today? If your school promotes ‘global citizenship’ but struggles to feel truly grounded in its local community, this conversation is essential. Shane is joined by headteacher and author Simon Probert, who argues that the future success of our sector depends on moving beyond a ‘rootless’ global identity. He introduces the powerful concept of ‘rooted cosmopolitanism,' building a school identity that is deeply connected to its local place and culture while maintaining its global outlook. You’ll learn why the term ‘global citizen’ can be problematic and loaded with privilege, and how to intentionally localise your curriculum, traditions, and community practices. The episode provides practical strategies for fostering genuine belonging, implementing effective co-leadership models between international and local leaders, and designing inclusive staff cultures that bridge cultural divides. Resources & Links Mentioned: Simon's LinkedIn Hartmut…

You explained it clearly, they nodded, and two weeks later three people did three completely different things. This episode tackles one of the most common and costly communication breakdowns in school leadership: assuming that because you said it, it landed. Shane draws on research from Cornell and Stanford, including the "tappers and listeners" study, to explain why even experienced leaders consistently overestimate how clearly their message has been received, and why just knowing about these biases isn't enough to fix them. The answer is a simple three-step habit called paraphrasing: signal, restate, check. You'll learn why paraphrasing is fundamentally different from just repeating words back, how it surfaces misunderstandings in the moment rather than weeks later, and why it's especially valuable in international school settings where language and cultural norms add another layer of complexity. Shane also covers how to handle the slightly awkward moment when someone looks at you like you're going oddly…

Selina Boyd, international editor of The Good Schools Guide, reveals what actually matters when parents choose schools for their children. With over a decade reviewing international schools and more than 1,600 schools assessed worldwide, Selina explains why authentic leadership isn't about what leaders say about themselves, but what parents and students say about them. This conversation challenges school leaders to rethink how they communicate their school's story in an era where parents are savvy researchers who trust other parents more than polished marketing materials. You'll learn the specific moments that signal whether students are genuinely thriving, from children running up to show their work to sixth formers who can articulate why they chose your school. Selina shares practical examples of authentic school storytelling, including how one international school used Instagram reels to connect with future students in a way that felt genuine rather than contrived. If you're trying to build trust with…

You hired the wrong person, killed a working programme, or ignored a massive risk whilst feeling completely rational the whole time. This episode unpacks five cognitive biases that sabotage school leadership decisions constantly: anchoring, availability bias, endowment effect, groupthink, and optimism bias. Shane shares real examples from his own leadership mistakes, including a disastrous hiring decision driven by a compelling opening story, and explains why these mental shortcuts that usually help us actually wreck leadership decisions. You'll learn practical systems to catch yourself before these biases derail your next major decision. Shane walks through how to counter anchoring with "consider the opposite" thinking, why you need a decision journal to spot availability bias patterns, how to set up kill committees for initiatives you've personally championed, and why assigning a devil's advocate role fights groupthink. If you've ever wondered why smart leaders sometimes make terrible collective decisions,…

Chris Scorer and Shane Leaning got together to unpack some of the big themes from recent episodes, particularly that vulnerable solo episode Shane put out about self-doubt and imposter syndrome. The response to that one has been overwhelming, especially the private messages from leaders who haven't felt able to share their struggles publicly. Chris and Shane dug into why we've become so intolerant of failure in education, how accountability has overtaken development in our systems, and whether that's creating environments where leaders feel they have to hide their vulnerability rather than use it as a learning opportunity. We also talked about Jet Wolper's brilliant episode on questioning the status quo and why we keep cutting the ends off ham. It challenged our developmental approach to change because sometimes, as Chris pointed out, you need to strip things back before you can build them up properly. Chris shared James Miller's gutsy move at Royal Grammar School Newcastle, where he simply got rid of…

Instructional coaching should be a powerful engine for teacher development, yet so many school initiatives stall or backfire. Why? In this frank conversation, Dr. Gene Tavernetti joins Shane to dissect exactly where and how coaching programmes commonly fail. With over thirty years in education (as coach, teacher, counselor, administrator, and consultant), Gene pulls no punches on the systemic pitfalls, from treating coaching as a remedial tool to the crippling myth of total confidentiality. As author of Teach FAST and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles (John Catt Education) and co-founder of Total Educational Systems Support (TESS), Gene has spent nearly two decades training teachers and those who support them in providing the best instruction possible. You'll learn why a mandatory, school-wide approach is often better than a voluntary one and how to strategically select your first teachers to coach to build credibility. Gene explains the critical difference between professional and personal…

You know that feeling when you wake up with a weight on your chest, convinced you don't belong and everyone's about to find out? Shane gets vulnerable about a recent morning just like that: when a piece of work that wasn't his absolute best sent him spiralling into shame. This solo episode tackles the difference between "I did something imperfect" and "I am not good enough," and why that distinction matters so much for school leaders who hold themselves to impossibly high standards. You'll learn the crucial difference between shame and guilt (and why one protects you whilst the other keeps you stuck), how to separate the stories you're making up from actual data, and why your character matters more than your competence in any single moment. Shane shares frameworks from Brené Brown, Adam Grant, and Stephen Covey, but also gets honest about why sometimes you can't think your way out, sometimes you just need to feel it. If you've ever felt like an imposter or struggled after work that wasn't perfect, this…

Why do schools continue using systems they hate? Jett Wolper from Sisi challenges the assumption that broken school systems are inevitable. Most educational technology wasn't designed for teachers, it was built for the people who purchase it, creating a 20-year legacy of platforms that work on paper but fail in practice. From timetabling that consumes enormous amounts of leadership time to communication scattered across WhatsApp, email, and multiple other platforms, these inefficiencies aren't just frustrating, they're directly contributing to teacher burnout and even affecting school admissions and finances. You'll learn why a story about ham perfectly explains most school systems, how duplicate data entry steals time from students, and why the best technology should be invisible. Jett shares practical steps for identifying which systems are draining your time, explains why centralising communication can transform a school overnight, and reveals Sisi’s vision for eliminating administrative tasks entirely.…

What if being direct isn't the same as being clear? Shane challenges a core assumption in leadership advice: that directness equals clarity. Drawing on Edward Hall's work on high and low context cultures and a recent conversation with Eunice Okpotu about psychological safety, Shane introduces a quadrant framework that separates directness from clarity. He's seen UK heads who are incredibly direct yet leave staff confused, and Chinese leaders who never directly confront anyone yet maintain crystal-clear standards across their schools. You'll learn the four quadrants of communication (direct and clear, direct and unclear, indirect and unclear, and indirect and clear), when to use each approach, and why indirect clarity is an overlooked leadership tool. Shane explains why indirect communication can preserve face whilst maintaining standards, when directness is essential (performance issues, safety concerns, legal requirements), and how the most effective leaders are fluent in both modes. If you've ever been…

Dr James Mannion has noticed something telling when working with school leaders: ask them what proportion of change initiatives actually improved anything. Most estimate 10-20%, but when pressed about sustainable change with real evidence, that figure drops to nearly zero. Dr James Mannion, author of a comprehensive programme on implementation science, explains why this failure rate persists despite everyone knowing about it and more importantly, how schools can break the cycle. James reveals two deep-rooted issues: leaders aren't taught change management, and we default to top-down approaches that violate people's fundamental need for autonomy. You'll learn why healthcare takes 17 years to achieve just 14% uptake of proven practices, how to build slice teams that bring genuine representation to decision-making, and the power of five-minute interviews for surfacing concerns without fear of repercussion. Shane and James discuss the difference between implementation science and improvement science, why…

As 2025 comes to a close, Shane reflects on the year by counting down the five most listened to episodes of Education Leaders. The podcast has grown significantly, doubling in size just in the last six months and reaching around 150 episodes total. Whether you've been following along all year or you're brand new to the show, this episode gives you a curated guide to the conversations that resonated most with school leaders worldwide. You'll hear about episodes covering everything from mastering your interview game to understanding why teachers resist great ideas, from curriculum change implementation to the unique challenges of teacher educators. Shane shares why each episode connected with listeners, what makes them valuable, and which specific insights from Katherine Birbalsingh, Dr Ciara O'Donnell, Christopher Youles, Ben Whitaker and Orla Dempsey stood out. If you're looking for the most impactful conversations from the year or want to catch up on episodes you might have missed, this countdown will guide…