The Debaters

00:00 If you're listening to this, I already know you have great taste in podcasts. But maybe, if you're like me, you still wonder if you're missing out on the best stuff. That's where the Sounds Good newsletter can help you out. Every other Thursday, the audiophiles at CBC Podcasts highlight one must-hear show and lots of other new and noteworthy titles. They do conversation starters, they do hidden gems, and they also tell you about the stuff they love that they didn't make. Go to cbc.ca slash soundsgood to subscribe. 00:31 This is a CBC Podcast. 00:39 Hey, Canada! Da comedy's in da house! From Regina, Saskatchewan, home of Government House, it's The Debaters! 00:53 The Debaters, where comedians fight with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man whose government meant to make you laugh... 01:03 Yeah! 01:05 Thank you, Graham. 01:06 Hello, Canada. Welcome back to The Debaters. We are coming to you for the first time in a long while from Regina, Saskatchewan. 01:17 Yes! 01:20 Regina is a city with its own unique style. In fact, you have a kind of pizza here called Regina-style pizza, which I thought meant you could see the delivery driver coming from several kilometers away. 01:34 It turns out that you make a unique pizza pie. You cover a doughy crust in sauce and then add layer upon layer of cheese and toppings so it's thick like a lasagna, and then you bake it and slice it into four-inch squares. 01:51 And then afterwards, if you eat that, you're so full, you roll home like a prairie tumbleweed. 01:57 It is time now to meet two debaters who we think are a real slice. This comic was terrified of sitting on Santa's lap growing up because he was claustrophobic. It's Vancouver's Gavin Clarkson. Gavin Clarkson. 02:14 Striding across the stage purposely, to my left, wearing an adventurous hat. Hi, Gavin. Hi, Steve. Welcome back, my friend. Thank you. And this comic's successful strategy to join a community garden was the result of a well-thought-out plot. 02:30 It's Vancouver's Yumi Nagashima! 02:34 Judy! Hi, Steve. 02:38 Hi, Yumi. 02:39 How you doing? Good. 02:42 Debaters, your topic is one that has two camps, tents. Are they superior to RVs? 02:51 I'm happy we're debating this because one time on the show, we debated the awesomeness of Hawkins Cheesies. 02:58 And they were so thrilled. They were so thrilled. They sent our whole staff a bunch of Cheesies for free. 03:05 So let me be very clear here. 03:10 Regardless of how this debate plays out, I love Winnebago's. 03:15 I love them, especially top of the line Winnebago's, silver with red trim. 03:21 But I'm more likely to get a previously enjoyed tent. 03:25 Those are nice, too. So now it's time for a debate that will be campgrounds for concern. Whereas it provides a more authentic experience of the great outdoors, be it resolved when it comes to camping, a tent is superior to an RV. Gavin, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes. Starting now, Gavin Clarkson. Thank you, Steve. 03:50 Thank you. 03:52 Let's drop the pretense and go full pro-tense. 03:57 RVs suck. 03:59 They are expensive, limiting, and wasteful. My tent costs $150, and I've had it for years. I can take it anywhere that I want to go. Is it comfortable? Good Lord, no! 04:15 But is an RV $150,000 more comfortable? 04:21 Also, no. 04:23 And you'd think, surely, spending that kind of money would get you of something quality, right? Wrong. Because even the most expensive premier RV is somehow built with a kind of sawdust-to-glue ratio that would embarrass Ikea. LAUGHTER But not to worry, because you're not going to be in there much anyway. It's only an RV for maybe 2% of the year. For the other 98% of the year, it's just a driveway algae farm. 04:58 Building up that fine green patina of mold and mildew for you to breathe in on your next fresh air outing. 05:08 Honestly, RV might as well stand for respiratory virus. 05:19 And sure, you get to bring the comforts of home with you. But you also bring the problems of home. You know what I've never needed to do when camping with my tent? Call a plumber. 05:35 But again, you'll never need a plumber either, because anyone who's been in an RV knows that the sinks and bathrooms are purely ornamental. 05:46 There are two things you hear when you first enter someone's RV. Please take off your shoes and, oh, we don't use that. 05:55 But tents? Ah, they're cheap. And they're simple. The thinnest possible barrier between you and Mother Nature. And baby, it just feels better that way. 06:17 And tents are just way more fun than RVs. RVs require this huge commitment of time and money. They're so needy and expensive. Tents are the complete opposite. They're a low commitment fling that just says, zip down my fly and come inside. 06:47 Look, I'm just saying, if you need a full kitchen, king-size bed, couch, plumbing, and Wi-Fi to enjoy nature, here's a little secret. You don't enjoy nature. 07:01 And that's okay. Just do something you, and everyone with you will enjoy more. Stay home. 07:08 Thank you. 07:10 Yeah! 07:13 Gavin Clarkson... 07:16 is pro tense with no free tense. 07:20 Thank you, Gavin. Now, here to get things rolling in favor of RVs, it's the one and only Yumi Nagashima. 07:34 Hello, beautiful people in Regina. 07:38 In Japan, camping isn't very common. 07:42 If you lie down outside, someone thinks you're waiting for a train. 07:54 Too dark? 07:59 Then I moved to Canada, and my husband introduced me to camping. It blew my mind. 08:07 I was like, wow, this is what happens when a country has land. 08:20 Fresh air, open skies, endless stars. These are rare in Tokyo. 08:28 But the excitement lasted one day because I slept in a tent. 08:38 Apparently, every rock in Canada was directly under my body. 08:46 So next time, we rented an RV. 08:50 And suddenly, I understood why people love camping. 08:57 Human evolution spent hundreds of thousands of years trying to get us off the ground. 09:08 Arby's are the pinnacle of human achievement. 09:20 I introduced tent camping to my Japanese friends recently. 09:25 I thought we would bond around the campfire. But instead, we spent two hours setting up tents and having separate emotional breakdowns. 09:44 With an RV, you spend more time enjoying people and nature and less time small wrestling fabric. 09:55 Because RV stands for recreational vehicle. 10:00 Happiness is our birthright. 10:03 Thank you. 10:05 Yeah! 10:08 Yumi Nagashima, on behalf of RVs. 10:14 We've got ourselves a debate. 10:16 It is time now for what we call the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating tents versus RVs, so let's go at this with intent. 10:28 Go ahead and A-frame your argument. 10:32 Think on the fly. 10:34 And things should go off without a hitch, provided you don't use any propane language. 10:42 Say it, don't bear spray it, starting now. 10:50 Yumi, I struggle to understand how you had so much trouble setting up a tent and taking it down and putting it back together. You're from Japan, the world champions of neatly folding things. 11:11 I know, Gavin. I did my best, but it kept turning into a crane. 11:27 I understand that you love tents, but have you ever been to a circus tent? 11:34 There are so many clowns. 11:38 Of course, I've been to a circus. Circuses are fun. I would much rather be at the circus in a tent than at the trailer park. 11:48 What are you talking... Look, I'm sorry you had a bad camping experience. I think you and your husband just need to communicate more. You know what I mean? Like, you certainly wouldn't be the first man who went out to get an expensive vehicle after struggling to pitch a tent. 12:11 We're gonna stop it there. That's the bare-knuckle round. 12:16 It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on tents versus RVs, brought to you by the preferred cocktail of people who don't camp in tents, RV Wallbangers. 12:31 Thank you. 12:33 Diamond Lure Campground says that compared to RVs, tent camping is simpler, less expensive, and also what? 12:41 Yumi? 12:42 The leading cause of insomnia. 12:47 Good point. Good point for that. Gavin? More intense. 12:54 See? See? 12:56 Many shows might frown on that, but that's three points. Three points for you right there. 13:02 Diamond Lure Campground says, compared to RVs, tent camping is simpler, less expensive, and closer to nature. 13:11 We would also have accepted easier to fold. 13:17 KOA Campgrounds says for optimum RV trips, follow the 3-3-3 rule. Drive no more than 300 miles, arrive by 3 p.m., and what else? 13:29 Yumi. 13:30 Spend no more than three minutes setting up camp. 13:34 Good. That's good. 13:37 Three points for you. 13:40 Gavin Clarkson? Three beers before backing her up. 13:47 Pretty good, buddy. Three points. The 3-3-3 rule is drive no more than 300 miles, arrive by 3 p.m., and stay at least three nights. 14:00 Or have at least three children to do all the camp chores. Okay. 14:04 Regina's Buffalo Lookout Campground and RV Park says it features clean bathrooms, free showers and Wi-Fi, and is located just four minutes from what? Yumi. The good part of Regina. 14:25 For the radio listeners, she did air quotes there. 14:29 The actual answer, it's located just four minutes from Costco. 14:37 What a great campground that would be. 14:43 IslandRVGuide.com says RVs are known by different names around the world, including camper or caravan in Italy and the Netherlands and in France. It's called what? 14:55 Gavin? 14:56 A dirty American invention. LAUGHTER 15:03 Was that your French accent? Was that the French accent? Okay. Best I could do. 15:10 Whoo! Two points for trying, I guess. 15:15 Yumi? 15:17 A wine cellar on wheels. 15:20 A wine cellar on wheels? And again, she sold it with hand gestures. 15:26 I will give you a point. 15:28 In France, it's called a camping car. 15:32 Or if you took, in elementary school French of the 80s, la voiture de la camp. 15:41 What does RVShare.com suggest is one good way to help pay for the cost of your RV? 15:48 Gavin? 15:48 Cook meth in it. 15:57 What the heck? Four and a half points, Gavin. 16:02 The actual answer, one good way to help pay for the cost of your RV is rent it out to others when you're not using it. 16:11 That sounds fun. And that is the firing line, everybody. 16:18 We are debating... 16:20 Camping in tents versus RVs, and it's almost time for our Regina Performing Arts Center audience to place their votes. But first, here with a hard-driving argument in support of RVs, let's hear again from Yumi Nagashima. 16:40 RVs gave us the Robin Williams movie RV. 16:46 Tents gave us the movie Deliverance. 16:57 With an RV, you don't have to hang your food in a tree at night. 17:05 Animals can't open RV doors. 17:09 To wildlife, a person sleeping in a tent is basically a wrapped salami sandwich. 17:23 And let's be honest, we are in Regina. 17:27 In this Saskatchewan wind, a tent isn't shelter. 17:42 It is a very expensive kite. 17:51 That's why I am Team RV. Thank you. 17:57 Yumi Nagashima with a fantastic closing argument on behalf of RVs vs. Tents. 18:04 Now, before things get too tense, here with a tentpole argument that supports his side of the debate, let's hear one more time from Gavin Clarkson. Thank you. 18:18 If you have an RV, I understand what you're trying to capture. 18:24 It seems not long ago, everyone had a family member with a cottage or a cabin where you would all gather and have all the comforts of home in a still rustic, natural space where you made some of your favorite memories. It's a sad and hard reality that for most of us, that kind of property is just no longer attainable. And you're trying to recapture that childhood memory with RVs. But we know deep down it's a poor alternative. 18:51 And honestly, with the way things are going for Canada's middle class, the faster you learn to be comfortable in a tent, the better. 19:04 Thank you. 19:04 Thank you. 19:06 Gavin Clarkson. 19:10 On behalf of tents. Some sobering thoughts, but still funny. All right, thanks, Gavin. 19:18 All right, audience. It is up to you to decide who wins. It's time to vote. By applause, who thinks Gavin deserves his own tent talk? Gavin Clarkson. Gavin Clarkson. 19:32 Some nice support here in Regina for Gavin. And how many people thought Yumi kept her foot on the gas the whole way with her pro RV, Yumi Nagashima? 19:45 It was so close. It's almost too close to call, but I'm calling it. Yumi Nagashima, RV's over 10th. Big hand for Yumi Nagashima and the great Gavin Clarkson, everybody. Mm-hmm. 20:00 Hey, debaters listeners. Well, there's no debating it. We'd love it if you could hit the follow button on our podcast. That way you won't miss an episode. And if you already follow us, thank you. 20:13 What if I told you that most of history's underwear wasn't remotely close to the underwear you're wearing right now? Hi, I'm Greg Jenner, host of the You're Dead to Me podcast, and we're back with a brand new season. And if you're a fan of fashion trends of the past, you'll love our newest episode on the history of underwear. We explore how our underwear has changed throughout history and whether TV depictions of Regency era ladies in their lacy underwear are truly accurate. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. 20:46 Hey Regina, are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? Listen to that crowd, Canada! 20:56 This comic writes his reviews of romantic dramas in the notebook he carries with him. It's Vancouver's Miles Anderson! Come on out, Miles! 21:07 Miles Anderson, looking ready and festive, as always. 21:12 Hello. Hello, my friend. 21:14 And this comic calmly pulls the tape out of old videocassettes to relax and unwind. 21:21 It's Prince Albert Saskatchewan's Kelly Taylor! 21:25 Kelly Taylor, striding across the stage in a magnificent shirt. 21:35 Your topic is one that if you don't like it, well, tough. Are the toughest Canadians from right here in Saskatchewan? 21:47 Listen to that, Canada. 21:49 I'll tell you this, those who are listening, this is one tough-looking public radio-supporting crowd here tonight. 21:56 at the Regina Performing Arts Center. 21:59 Some people have their reading glasses on steel chains around their tattooed necks. 22:08 This crowd might think they're tougher than listeners in other provinces, but let me tell you, tough Reginans, our listeners all over Canada are not afraid, all right? They are tough. They will handwrite a letter. 22:23 So watch yourself. 22:25 Time now for a debate that we're determined to tough out. So, whereas its residents navigate challenges such as extreme temperatures, isolation, and hard labor, be it resolved the toughest Canadians come from Saskatchewan. Kelly, you are arguing for this, please, my friend. You have two minutes, starting now. Kelly Taylor! 22:51 Miles, I know you're from Vancouver where roughing it means the oat milk ran out of your coffee shop. 23:01 Vancouver, you play football in a dome. 23:06 We play outside in minus 30 weather and we use a wet watermelon to keep us warm. 23:16 You guys everywhere else in Canada, they wear hoodies. Sounds gangster. 23:21 You know how tough you have to be to tell everyone you wear a bunny hug? 23:33 Last call everywhere else in this country means you can get your last drink. In Saskatchewan, last call means let's start fighting. 23:44 We come from farmers. 23:46 You ever shake a farmer's hand? It's like putting your hand in a vice grip. 23:52 My grandpa has 26 grit sandpaper hands. 23:58 Farmers come from big families. We have 12, my wife 12 on that side. You ever try to fight a brother 10 years older than you? 24:07 Your mum just sends you downstairs? Hey, mum, I don't want to fight my brother who's 17. I'm six years old. 24:15 You get hand-me-downs. 24:17 They're not good. 24:19 You ever go to school with your sister's halter top on? 24:28 Gordie Howe from floral Saskatchewan. There's a term named after Gordie Howe called a Gordie Howe hat trick. 24:35 A goal, an assist, and a fight. 24:39 A Vancouver hat trick is yoga, vaping, and wearing a helmet for everything you do. 24:52 I'm a celiac living in Saskatchewan. Do you know how tough that is? 25:01 The land of wheat. 25:03 Your choices for eating are not eating or crapping your pants. 25:13 More young people leave this province than anywhere in Canada. 25:18 So that leaves our seniors to work. 25:21 You know how tough it is to wait outside the drive-thru for your 90-year-old to bring your chicken nuggets? 25:28 Sorry I was late, just got my new hip. Thank you, Steve. 25:33 Kelly Taylor, Prince Albert's own, arguing that people from Saskatchewan are the toughest people in the country. I don't know what a bunny hug is, but they all got it. 25:47 Oh, they got it. Don't worry, we'll have a Vico after and discuss it. 25:53 I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, but as long as they like it... 25:58 Yeah. 26:01 Now, here to assure you that debating Saskatchewanians as being the toughest Canadians is just the weakest argument. 26:10 His words, not mine. It's Miles Anderson. 26:18 Thank you very much. Kelly, you are very brave. I would never claim that the toughest Canadians come from Saskatchewan. I'm afraid that if I did, somebody from Manitoba would stab me. 26:37 Saskatchewan does have extreme temperatures, but lately all the provinces do. For some reason, nobody really knows for sure. Do your own research, I guess. 26:53 Saskatchewan is not the most isolated province. That would be Newfoundland. Newfies are part of Canada, but they can't communicate with us because they speak an unknown dialect of English. 27:09 You can probably tell from my accent that I am from British Columbia. B.C. is far tougher than Saskatchewan. You think you work hard in Saskatchewan? My doctor delivers Uber Eats between surgeries... 27:27 to afford her two-bedroom condo in Vancouver. 27:32 Some Albertans are so tough, they think they can form their own country. 27:38 Imagine being so confident that you think you could just hang out next to America all alone, full of oil. 27:54 Have fun with that. 27:56 Northern Saskatchewan is rugged and tough people do live there, but the territories north of northern Saskatchewan would eat them for breakfast. 28:06 French Canadians are tough because they're constantly getting into fights with the English, the French, and French Canadians. 28:20 Ontarioians are tough. In Toronto, rush hour is every hour, every day, forever. 28:28 Thank you. 28:31 Miles Anderson arguing against Saskatchewan being the toughest Canadians. 28:40 This, I just want to say, Kelly, before we start this next round, that it's named figuratively. 28:46 Okay? 28:47 It's time now for the bare-knuckle round! 28:52 We're debating whether Saskatchewanians are the toughest Canadians. So since you're both swift current comics, outstanding in your field, it's time to way burn your opponent. 29:10 Give him a verbal punch in the moose jaw, a kick right in the cam sack, and a boot in the Brent butt. 29:19 It's time to win this Battleford, starting now. 29:29 You complain about your doctor. Well, guess what, Miles? We have the same doctor. 29:36 There is no doctors here. My next appointment for MRI is in 11 years in Vancouver. 29:51 You say Saskatchewan is tough because it has farms. There's actually also farms in B.C., and you actually have to farm uphill there. 30:01 Well, when I was a kid in Saskatchewan growing up, my parents made me walk to school barefoot in blizzards, dead flat both ways. 30:20 You made fun of Vancouverites being gluten-free. That's a little bit of a dated reference. We actually cured celiac with matcha lattes. 30:31 Miles, if you think Saskatchewan is so weak, why don't you have a little Saskatchewan dessert? It's called Copenhagen. Miles, would you like to come over here for a little Saskatchewan dessert? I don't want your weird Danish poison. 30:43 Okay, we're going to stop the bear and I'll go around right there. 30:48 Kelly pulled out the chewing tobacco and Miles recoiled. That's what you need to know. You wouldn't share. It's very expensive. 30:58 It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on people from Saskatchewan being the toughest brought to you by the provincial bird of Saskatchewan, the sharp-tailed grouse. 31:11 Way tougher than the blunt-tailed grouse. 31:18 During the Great Depression, Saskatchewanians, who could no longer afford gasoline or car repairs, adapted by doing what? 31:27 Miles? Anything but walk. I mean, you'll hear the answer and it's not that far off. 31:38 Kelly Taylor. 31:40 That's how the city of Prince Albert came to be. The cars just broke and they had no gas and they started a city. Oh! 31:50 He can say that. He's from Prince Albert. People adapted by removing the engine and having a horse pull their car, which came to be called a Bennett buggy. 32:03 Oh, still doing that in Imperial Saskatchewan. 32:10 Gas prices now. I might get my dog at home to take one for the team. Sorry. 32:16 Saskatchewan's motto is multisi gentibus viris, a Latin phrase that translates to what? 32:25 Kelly? Multiple gentle virus. Genital virus. Yeah, multiple genital virus. Yeah, that's it. 32:32 I remember learning that in school. 32:36 Yeah. Okay. All right. I enjoyed watching the thought process. 32:42 No. From many people's strength. 32:46 from many people's strength. We also would have accepted... We also would have accepted... Suck it, Blue Bombers. Suck it. Saskatchewan's Jackie Oshiebski has won Western Canada's strongest woman three times and done what four times? 33:12 Been treated for multiple genital viruses. 33:22 Oh, you wouldn't say that to her face. She's not here, is she? How can I find out? 33:32 Miles? 33:34 Skipped leg day. 33:36 That's a good guess. She has won Western Canada's Strongest Woman three times and placed second in Strongest Woman in the World four times. 33:48 Amazing. 33:53 According to CanadianFootballHistory.ca, the origin of the team name Rough Riders likely refers to what? 34:02 Miles? 34:02 An uncomfortable riding experience. 34:15 Oh, so stupid. So stupid, but delivered so brilliantly. And for those listening, yes, he looks exactly like that. 34:30 Kelly Taylor. A rough rider comes from the term of a bad whiskey barrel, because you're like, that's a rough rider. 34:45 Three points each. Three points each on that one. Two real field goals on that one. 34:51 The origin of the team name Rough Riders likely refers to breaking wild horses on the prairies. 35:00 We also would have accepted flying around in the flatbed of your dad's truck. And that is the firing line, everybody. 35:10 Well, we are cruising right along, and it's almost time for our Regina Performing Arts Center audience to vote. But first, here again to prove to us that when the going gets tough, the tough get going far away from Saskatchewan. Let's hear from Miles Anderson. 35:31 Some of you might question my ability to judge toughness. 35:46 It's true. 35:48 I am not very tough. 35:50 I cover my ears when an ambulance drives by. 35:56 Even when the sirens aren't on, I find the engine is too loud and aggressive. 36:04 But I have read books about toughness. 36:11 I have listened to radio plays about sturdy pioneers. And I have concluded that toughness is overrated. It is far better to be soft and funny than tough and stoic. 36:25 Tough people need to always prove their toughness. It's exhausting. If people accuse me of being soft, I just giggle, agree with them, and go back to my needlework. 36:43 LAUGHTER 36:51 No, Saskatchewan doesn't produce the toughest Canadians. I think you guys are actually pretty cool. Thank you. 36:59 Yeah! 37:00 Miles Anderson. 37:03 Miles Anderson with a great argument. 37:07 Thank you, Miles. Now, expanding on how even resilient Saskatchewan kids will only sing about tough, the magic dragon. Let's hear from Kelly Taylor. 37:23 You know what you get when you Google toughest sports team ever? 37:28 You get NHL tough guys from SAS. Kelly Chase, Joey Kosher, Kerry Clark, Wendell Clark, Barry Melrose, Killer Kaminsky, and two farmers. 37:40 And that was a Saskatchewan softball team. 37:49 You ever been to a SAS pit party? 37:53 The only place you can get laid, get in a fight, burnt by a fire, eaten alive by mosquitoes, frostbite with no clue how you're getting home. 38:05 In Vancouver and Toronto, they think they're saving the environment by riding their bicycles all over the place. Adults on bicycles. 38:15 If you see an adult on a bicycle in Saskatchewan, you're like, hey, that guy got a DUI. 38:22 Thank you. 38:25 Kelly Taylor. 38:28 Oh. 38:32 rest of Canada is laughing like you've made this up. But the audience here is nodding. Like, yeah, that's true. That's a real softball team. 38:42 I believe you. 38:43 I believe you. 38:45 All right, Saskatchewan, it's time to vote by applause. Who agreed with Miles that for Saskatchewanians to learn they're not that tough might be a tough pill to swallow? Miles Anderson. Okay. 38:59 All right. That's what's known in the business as polite applause. 39:06 And who agreed with Kelly's claim that Saskatchewanians are the toughest act to follow? Kelly Taylor. 39:12 That's what I thought. This was a tough one. The winner is Kelly Taylor. Saskatchewanians are the toughest Canadians. 39:21 Big hand for Kelly and Miles, everybody. 39:24 Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying thanks to the good people of Saskatchewan for not being too tough a crowd for us. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night! 39:39 The Debaters is created by Richard Seid. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark. With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Perella and Emma Kramer-Roger. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries, David Pride, and Emily Ferrier. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. 40:06 And thanks to everyone at the Regina Performing Arts Center. 40:11 For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.